Munro under no illusions

What were your perceptions of the women’s game before you took the job?

I was ignorant of it. I had a perception that the women’s game – and the players themselves – weren’t very good, that they didn’t train hard and that they were keen just to put on a Scottish jersey and be happy with that. I could not have been more wrong. The players themselves are a really great bunch of people. They have a huge desire to play rugby, they want to do well, they are really coachable – they have just been poorly resourced and they do not know any better. They do not have the resources behind them.

For example, they’ll do a lot of strength and conditioning training but it might not be exactly the right sort of stuff so they aren’t achieving what they could in the same time. One of the things I have tried to do is give them the expertise to do these things. There are no paid players in Scotland in the women’s game so there is a bit of a divide there. We are still living very much in the amateur ethos and culture – but it’s changing. It’s getting better, but there’s load to work on.

In a recent video interview you said that the first thing you had to do was to ensure that the players got on with each other, how is that going?

You do not necessarily have to like everyone in the squad, but you have to respect what they bring to the team and respect them as players. Historically there seems to have been a bit of negative feedback on some players not getting on with each other, which impacts on the team itself. Until you have a strong culture of respect you will have problems. So it’s a matter for them to set up their own culture and buy into it, which creates a much happier environment and a better environment to learn from. But they have to enjoy themselves. If you do not enjoy yourselves you are going to fall out. The biggest drop out of players is through lack of enjoyment. That is criminal, I think. At the very least you can do is enjoy what you are doing. And that comes down to the basic level, coaches at club level, the whole culture about how the women’s game is coached. That has to change. So what I am trying to do is a top down approach, try to improve that national team culture so that will filter down.

There seems to be a huge drop off in Scotland between teenage and adult rugby – more so than any other Six Nations country – why is that?

I believe the players are there and if they are coached well they will come back, but if you go there and it’s not enjoyable you won’t.

I’d highlight that as a big area of concern. I think it comes down again to the old traditional rugby clubs, and how much integration the women’s team has into that club. Some clubs still treat women’s players as second class citizens. Clubs would disagree with that, but the women’s game always tends to be the first one that gets cancelled. If there are clashes with training it always tends to be the women’s training that gets cancelled. Changing rooms – “oh we can’t have women playing because the men are playing, there are not enough rooms”. Or “You have a female referee, but we have nowhere for her to get changed, so there’s no game”. It’s too easily brushed aside.

Is that a uniquely Scottish problem?

There are a lot of good people involved in the women’s game here and things may be changing, but we – the women’s coaches today (at the Six Nations launch) – were left sat up in the green room there when everyone else left joking that not many media want to talk to us. Although things may be different and improving, there’s a feeling that we’re all on the bottom rung of our ladder. Everyone’s in the same boat, relative to the country they are in.  We all want to improve it and we are all constantly pushing the boundaries.

We’ve been impressed by the innovations in Scotland in recent months– the East/West game, Spanish tour. Scotland seem better prepared than ever.

When you compare the club game with international there is a difference in intensity. So without more competitive games they are not conditioned to play international rugby. They do not have that experience of preparation, for when they come up against well prepared opposition. So the East v West game was an attempt to try to raise the level of preparation within Scotland. It definitely was a success in the level of game that was played – Spain was another one. But we need more games against people so we can raise the standard of preparation before a game before we go in the Six Nations.

It would be great if we could come down and play Richmond or Worcester or Lichfield or someone like that, maybe play an international against Wales. After all– Ireland play England, and Wales play Ireland and so on. Everyone seems to be playing international but we’re not. I would play anyone to be honest. Anyone who is going to raise the standard and intensity of what we are doing. International rugby is that.

Do Scotland need to learn how to win?

The girls need to more exposure to playing international rugby and winning. There is no point in just playing in the Six Nations year after year and getting smashed. I am obviously hoping that that does not become the case this year, but there is no quick fix.

When something goes wrong you can physically see the heads go down or if a key player goes off injured or we concede a try. The girls expect to lose so a big part my job is to raise their confidence. Give them licence to try things. Do not worry if you make mistakes. Go for it, because if we play a conservative style of rugby we’re never going to score. So I want to push the boundaries being as positive as I can be. Fitness is a huge area for us now – we are not fit enough and the players who are in the BT Academies are quite obviously fitter than the ones that aren’t. That shows you the way we need to go. In the last 20 minutes in the Six Nations games last year, that is where we conceded loads and loads of points. That may happen again this year but it’s something we are determined to improve.

How is the U20 programme?

We are taking on Belgium this year – it’s a good fixture to have. But again for us it’s a problem of identifying the players. Who are they? Where are they? It’s a big task trying to get them together into camps to have them train with the right coaches so we can look at them and see who is good enough.

There is not a recognised junior pathway at the moment, so if you are a 15 year old and a good player and at school, where do you go? We need a pathway for that 15 year-old. We’re just word of mouth at the moment. “Oh I know a girl who’s really good, I think she’s still 19”. And I’m like “invite her!” If I see or hear of a promising young player I’m calling her up for a trial. That is where we are, there’s not recognised structure but things are changing.

What’s happening with a sevens programme?

There are some really great people working with that, but it’s the national XV team that supplies it at the moment. The same girls have to do everything. We have Steph Johnston with the Great Britain squad, but she will not be playing in the Six Nations. I’ve been down to visit the training in the Surrey Sports Park and it’s a huge commitment for her, with her job. But she is absolutely single minded. She will do absolutely anything she possibly can to get in the GB team, and if she does not get selected she’ll know she’s done her absolute best.